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Ugh, why am I still here?

Dollers are Tracers -- EDITED

Journal Entry: Mon Jun 30, 2008, 9:10 PM
  • Listening to: I Am America (And So Can You)
  • Reading: Academ's Fury
  • Watching: Dr Who
  • Drinking: Dr Pepper

:iconbeblue:

Current poll: Why do you doll?

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ETA: To everyone who said that tracing is okay in other forms of art, may I please direct your attention to the fuss being made over the traced winning entry in a dA contest and all the anger that's showing all over the community? (;

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Got your attention, didn't I? And it didn't feel so nice. (;

I have to admit, I'm pretty horrified with the results of my most recent poll. I'm mostly horrified because the people who voted for irresponsible choices declined to answer. This seems telling to me.

Anyway, here's a breakdown.

"40 deviants said I'll only use a traced base if they have the original artist's permission."

These people -- well, I can respect them. I can understand the opinion even if I disagree with it personally.

Morally, they're correct. It's morally and legally acceptable to create a traced base, if you have the original artist's permission. However, I still think this is destructive to the community. Making a traced base is not art: it is practice.

It is lazy, and yes I know it pisses people off when I say this, I just don't care. (; ~Pyrochan-dolls just wrote a great tutorial on how to make a GOOD base, and wrote a journal entry discussing why making traced bases is bad....and I'm just going to add another issue.

If traced bases get attention, get features, get used more than non-traced, why should anyone ever make another non-traced base again? If someone lazy, who just traces and tosses on crappy color, not even editing the lines, gets the same attention and respect as someone who draws a whole base from scratch, why should anyone waste their time?

"29 deviants said I'll never use any traced base, because I think tracing bases is wrong."

My heroes, really. Encouraging creativity in the community.

"20 deviants said I'll only use bases traced from photos, not any other artist's work."

This bothers me. These people seem to be saying that photographers don't deserve the same artistic rights as other artists -- that they don't deserve respect for setting up their shot, for posing their models, for doing the lighting.

If you were one of these people, I'd love to hear a defense of this belief. Lemme know why these copyrights don't deserve to be respected. (;

"18 deviants said I use them anyway -- I'm not the one who did the tracing!"

THIS is the result that disgusted me the most. A good 14% of the people who replied to this poll shrugged off all moral responsibility. This is behavior deserving of a child who hasn't learned about stealing, not an adult who supposedly considers him or herself an artist.

If this were another kind of theft, this would be called "being an accessory". It can be punished almost as harshly as actually perpetrating the crime, and yet these people decided not to giggle and say 'oh, I didn't steal, so it's not my problem!'

I'd like to hear from these people, too. What would you do if your friend stole enough candy from a candy store to leave the owner out a good fifty to a hundred bucks? Would you giggle and say 'oh, I didn't steal, so it's not my problem!' and then share the candy with your friend? Or would you be shocked and horrified and refuse to eat it, perhaps even turn her in?

Yeah. I thought so.

"13 deviants said I refuse to use them and tell everyone that they're traced."

This is what I do. I tell everyone I know, when they're using a traced base -- because so many people don't know, or can't recognize them. If I see a friend working on a traced base, I almost always say "You know that's traced, right?" and most of my friends go "damnit!" and immediately delete the doll.

Of course, I also just don't think these people deserve the respect and acclaim that they get. I tell on FDers, too. I tell EVERYONE about all the FDers I know, all my personal experiences, and all of what I've learned through the grapevine. If we can't take better punitive measures, then the only way to deal with these people is by ruining their reputations, and taking away the popularity that was their main goal.

"13 deviants said I'll only use bases traced from photos or popular animes, not any other artist's work."

So, basically, in short, dollers don't respect other artists. They don't respect themselves. You can't care about your own work and take it seriously if you don't take OTHER peoples' work seriously, and if you don't respect their rights.

How can we ask for respect as a group, if we don't give it as a group? When about fifty percent of dollers don't care about copyright, and are willing to trace another artist's work and steal the credit all for themselves?

~Pyrochan-dolls wrote a much nicer entry than this one, but I have this angry fire in the pit of my stomach that I have to get out -- because this shit is ruining me. It's personal. I can't get respect if dollers as a whole don't. And that's just not fair.

Now. Prove me wrong. Do you respect yourself through respecting others? Do you take responsibility for your actions and act as an adult? Do you have the integrity to stand by your beliefs, or do you cheat when no one's looking?

Are you a tracer?

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Some of you may have seen mention of Doors in some of the recent dolls I've posted -- but there is a larger, more elaborate description of what the forum is, the concept behind it, as well as a link out to it in this journal entry.

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respect has become some what lacking in the dolling community for a long time now its sad and every day we get yet another doller following the crowed so to speak... it be good to see some uniqueness out there....

and do read purochans tut its very good ! and she can pixel shade though she says shes not good at it i think she is !

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Av/sig base by [link]
Ok.. i guess ill just say my oppinion on the matter... and shove my foot in my mouth in the process

Relate it to music - IE : remakes.

No permission trace reference :
Eagles - have been really popular to remake the music of recently, and surprisingly many of the new artists dont bother with permission. The sad part is many people of this generation dont know who originally sang the song. (sound familiar?)

<;Permission trace reference
My favorite is Meatloafs - Its all coming back to me now.
Betcha thought this was originally a Celine dion song right? ERRRHHHHHH Wrong. It was written by Jim Steinman and sung at a private party by Meatloaf. Celine was there and asked to sing it (theres the permission outlook for ya) Look what happened. It was like her biggest hit outside of the titanic song. Meat loaf faded to black saddly.

No permission, gains more publicity reference
Darren hayes - is another example for remaking delta goodrems "lost without you" when she heard the version he did in concert, she contacted him and they duetted it.

Not that Im argueing your point. Im simply explaining public and artistic outlook. Ive ditched all of my traced bases but my photo traces, and most of them are referenced and not exact traces. speacking of, Lets move on.

Thats enough about relating this to music as im sure you have your own oppinion to combat mine lol, so lets use an artist example;

Luis Royo - He consistantly uses references photos of model latitia casta for his paintings. Infact, One is of liv tyler and pa-tyler.I know of only 1 person who rags on him for it and I dont think it hurts his piggy bank.

He doesnt get permission for the photos.. I guess it really revolves around the comissional aspect of the image.

If the rights have been purchased elsewhere, the original photographer looses original rights to their images. (in some cases not all.)

Its like working for TDP. If I draw an image for them, I give up my rights to the image. if they change it completely, I cant do diddly, because its theirs. They can say its theirs, they can make it a boy, they can pass it to another artist and have them re-do it. Although it may hurt the ORIGINAL artists feelings, they have change jiggling in their pocket to make them feel better.

Now when it comes to images that the original artist has rights to, and is trying to make a living from, Anyone who traces their shit should be shot.. but what ever, Im sure somewhere in this im a hippocrit anyway but maybe this will help shed light on confused minds wondering what these people are thinking.

L8r girly.

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Stuff goes here :-p
Along with that, I try to make a point not to comment or fav dolls made on traced bases.

If people don't get attention for using them, then they'll stop using them.

And when people stop using them, those who MAKE them will lose interest without getting attention or having their stolen crap bases used.

It might also be helpful if there was a seperate gallery for KiSS dolls, since a majority of the theft is coming from "so-called" KiSS base makers *caughthollinesscoughcough*.

But thaaat's not going to happen. )=

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N please
Yeah, not exactly solid arguments. (;

1) I'm sure that the first two paid to use the songs, and your statement that they 'didn't have permission' is completely unfounded. If you use a song and make money for it, you MUST pay royalties. Period. It's illegal if you don't, and you'll get sued, unless the copyright has come up. If you don't get sued, that doesn't make it okay, though -- it's still wrong, and just because some assholes have done it doesn't make it okay.

But in any case, this is different. These people aren't 'tracing'. They're taking a song that someone else wrote and singing it, putting their own spin on it, and most importantly GIVING CREDIT TO THE ORIGINAL WRITER. If you're telling me it doesn't say on the CD "music and lyrics written by ____" then I want to see proof. (; I just don't believe it. They don't go 'inspired by ______", they state clearly that they didn't write it, pay their royalties, the end. Responsibility.

Even when the copyright HAS come up, and it becomes public domain, you still have to give credit. ::shrug.:: If I recorded "Stormy Weather", which I'm pretty sure is free reign these days, I still couldn't say I made it, or that it was an original song based on the work of....I'd have to give proper credit.

2) She CONTACTED HIM and they DUETTED? So, in other words, she said "let's do a collaboration" and he said 'sure', and then she added something to the subject, instead of just trying to do a shitty cover of his song and take full credit for it? Doesn't apply; this is 100% consensual, she contributed her voice to the work, and she gave him proper credit.

3) Luis Royo -- uses references. You say he REFERENCES images. This is certainly not the same as tracing. I doubt he brings up the picture in photoshop, makes a new layer, and starts drawing over it. I didn't post anywhere in this journal that using a photo for a reference was unacceptable -- in fact, I constantly encourage dollers to do this. Don't know how to make a fold? Go look at a reference, reference it, figure out how the cloth would fall, and then recreate. Don't duplicate. Don't copy. Don't trace. Referencing, though, is perfectly fine.

4) TDP's rights -- yes. You gave up your rights to the image. But how did these artists give up their rights? When did these artists sign over their copyright? Did they do it by posting their work on the internet? Having something posted on google automatically makes it public domain? I know a lot of people were claiming that Orphaned Works was saying that, but even Orphaned Works said no such thing. (;

And even if the rights are sold -- well, they're still OWNED, and not by the dollers who are using them. Purchasing a stock image is fine...but honestly, in practice, how many of these pieces are based on purchased stock images? Did you buy the rights for the images you traced? SOMEONE still owns them, even if it's not the original artist.

5) Finally, basically, a starving artist has more rights than one who has money in the bank? That is dangerous terrain to tread upon, missy. This is like saying a starving man has the right to steal while a hungry one doesn't. You can't shrug off rules for one person and not for another. They can't be arbitrary.

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Argument is the only way to better understand your OWN beliefs.
It's funny, too, because pyro told me that somewhere in the FAQ it says that if a work is traced from another artist's, it can be considered copyright infringement and removed. {: I need to find that rule...

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Argument is the only way to better understand your OWN beliefs.
Oh, here's an actual example of stealing in the musical community: Sublime's song that starts "early in the morning..." clearly DIRECTLY rips EXACT melodies from the Beatles's "Lady Madonna" and never gives any credit.

I can't listen to that song. It pisses me off every time I hear it.

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Argument is the only way to better understand your OWN beliefs.
:0 That actually wouldn't surprise me.

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I wish!

I've reported so many of that girl's things and dA won't do crap about it even with irrefutable evidence that it's a trace. )=

If you find that FAQ, should I start referring dA to its own damn rules when reporting?

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N please

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